is it now Double Standards with SEMC / BMC ?

[DE ROME]

Well before I start I do expect the usual feedback from the Same Certain People on this site,
and Even More from the Other Site, where you are not allowed to respond to.
Saying things like trust you de Rome to bring this up, and all this crap about a personal vendetta,

Well some things certainly are true with me and the other one,
and some subjects do need to be brought up in public,
If I do not bring this matter up to you're attention,
Then I can guarantee that other weekly publications on the magic internet that are loved by you and me alike will certainly turn a blind eye again to the matter, maybe so they can stay in peoples good books?
or what ever reasons they might have again for not reporting certain things in the magic world.,

Things certainly do not seem at all fair for most of the magic dealers,
Those dealers who took a stand against being told what to do by other convention organizers on where they could, or could not sell there goods at, I am refering to the Magic dealers that did have a dealers booth at the SEMC in Surrey,
Because of the tremendous support and loyalty they gave to the SEMC a few weeks ago.
This ended up as you all will know, with them being banned for life from attending or having a dealers booth at the Blackpool Magic Convention, for 2009 and also in the future.

Paul Gordon was a main Lecturer at the SEMC, and also had a dealers stand, Graham lee had his Balloon stall, Davenports were there under the assumed banner of Select Magic I think it was?, Axtell’s puppets was represented at the SEMC as the first UK showing of the new line in animated puppets, And Tommy Coopers Magic was selling goods on behalf of Illusioncraft Blackpool.

So how come all of the above mentioned with the exception of Alan from Tommy Cooper are all having stands at the Blackpool Convention, Also as far as I know Graham lee Balloons is even now scheduled to do his lecture at the Blackpool Convention,
Could it be one rule for some dealers and another rule for all the others,
Maybe even some favoritism is involved here. Depending on whom you are, and how well you're respected by others in this magic fraternity we are all involved with.

Then you get all the dealers that really did pull out of the SEMC, Because of a now famous letter they got from the BMC Organizer ( woops I nearly mentioned his name then )
What the letter more or less said was, If you pull out of the SEMC, I will make sure you do get a stand at the Blackpool Magic Convention, plus if you have paid any none refundable deposit to the SEMC, Blackpool will even knock off this advance payment you made to the SEMC from you're Blackpool stand price. But if you do not pull out of the SEMC, you will not be able to attend the BMC

Is this new practice fair to all those dealers that gave in to the pressure put on them by the BMC,
When other dealers that did not give in to the pressure are now welcomed to attend both conventions, These dealers that did pull out of the SEMC, have been forced to loose money by turning down one convention in favoritism of a bigger one with uncalled for pressure from the organizer,
Really they could have been at both conventions and hopefully made a good money and a good healthy living from both these events,

I also have it on good authority that <<<Naquada - Removed at the request of the person you mentioned here, he said his dealing with both conventions are private and no authorisation was given to talk about it >>>
If I am wrong with this fact? And my source is totally wrong
please do put me right, and I will be more than happy to amend it and apologies where it is needed.

Ok lads and lasses lets see what feed back comes from this thread,
But please keep it to this forums pages, or other forums that let you reply to accusations made,
Please do not take this over to the MB, as there on that site I am not allowed to respond to anything, as it is quite apparent they do not believe in the right to reply and defend yourself.

Oh yes and as an after thought, I have heard again also on very good authority that there has been a film made to be called the making of a magic convention at the SEMC,
right now this is in its post production process and will be ready for general release shortly,
with No holds bared and the crew has had access to all areas from the start to finish,
This is due to be released onto the magic market at a minimal cost thru all good magic dealers and by post.
If I hear any more on this I will keep you posted….have a magical week

Cheers DEROME

[miles more magic]

Carl,

after just making a jokey response on the SEMC thread, trying to put everything behind us, You yet again start on the whole MB accusations.


I wasn't going to respond to this, nor will I do so any the SEMC/Blackpool subject, as I thought we were agreeing to each leave it alone.

I will keep responding when you keep making false accusations about the Admin team at MB.

Five of the Admin/mods from MB attended the SEMC, so you are WRONG in your thinking and comments.

You seem to feel that you are allowed to make untrue accusations about anybody you want, without any comeback. Yet you jump on a jokey comment I made on the SEMC thread.

Sad that you don't realise the extent of your own double standards!

[DE ROME]

Miles, Miles, Miles,
As for this posting on this new thread...with the double standards issue
that I have brought to peoples attention,
probably you and some others do not wish to know.
maybe you already know, but would rather turn a blind eye at?

So do you really think it is correct that some good decent hard working magic dealers are banned from selling there goods at a magic convention, when others are not,
that some magic dealers are given one ultimation and are bullied into things they do not want to do.
where as other magic dealers get totally different and preferential treatment,
I take it you do not agree that all people should be shown the same respect.
and be given an equal opportunity.

[miles more magic]

Carl,

Stop these false accusations right now!

I know for a fact that you are banned from Talk Magic, so it is untrue that MB is the only one you are banned from.

You have accused mods at MB of being in other peoples pocket. Untrue.

You say we are biased towards certain Conventions. Untrue.

You have repeatedly come out with lies. Please delete your lies, if you can actually tell what is real or not in "Carl De Rome World."

I will not normally respond to your posts, yet I WILL respond if you carry on your slurs and lies.

Once again, please take a look who is the person who has done the most in depth review on the SEMC. I think you will find it was me, who is one of the ones supposed to be biased against the SEMC.

[DE ROME]

Ok Miles sorry DARREL….
you are really starting to Peeve me off now, what I put is not lies, it is a fact that I can not respond to anything on the other site, it is this site that I have requested to respond to,
As for the Talk magic you mention, I'm right now trying to find out what it is, as I don’t recall posting on this site.
I have put a posting on a USA site months ago but if I recall this was called the magic cafe, and i have not used it since, but I do not recall that I was banned from that,
so you seem to know more about me than I know about myself.

I have just found this talk magic site, and again I honestly do not recall ever using it, but it does seem very similar in the lay out, and the logos, and everything else content wise, same colour scheme, type settings,
to be exactly the same as MB, Could this forum maybe also belong to MB….a clone or something,
As ive just opened a page and it’s the same as MB. 100% identical in every way,
I don’t know, but if it is then it will explain why I'm banned. thats a first banned from a site without knowing it
anyway I'm sure you will know as you do seem to be a know it all, and know every thing else about me.

All I have put on this page as far as I know is TRUE,
and to tell you the truth, I also do not want to respond to your rubbish either. As to me you are a total bore
This is the last response you will get from me, as I do not give a toss about your oppinions, as all you are trying to do is to get me worked up for what ever reason you have?
As we certainly have nothing in common. And we totally dislike each other,

YES YOU DID do a good review on the SEMC, it was very very nice and I agreed with most of it,
As I have said to you before, well done for the good article, 10/10, 5 gold stars, who’s a good boy then,
You can pass go and you can collect your £200, Happy now,? A very Nice review Mr Miles more magic.

But at the end of it, what did you have to do, you put that CRAP about me, again there was NO reason what so ever to put it, but your bloody stupid remarks were aimed at getting me worked up Just as Dale Shrimpton said in his posting you was trying to do.
And OK congratulations you’ve done your job and yes I'm worked up like mad.

If I had mentioned anything about a certain person in my post then quite a few of you, including you Darrell would have jumped all over me, also whilst I'm worked up If you care to look back over all my postings I do not recall mentioning a certain persons name once since the 5th of September.
And don’t really intend to mention his name no need to do that anymore, SEPTEMBER that’s just over 5 months
So pray tell me just exactly why you did what you did to ruin your review of the SEMC.
And I certainly do not think that YOU are biased against the SEMC, small mercy for that at least
I'm however now really glad I never met you there, small mercy at least there for us both hey


HOPE THIIS ALTERATION WILL KEEP THE MODORATORS HAPPY,
AS I HAD A PRIVATE MESSAGE ASKING ME TO RE EDIT THE POST,
SO WHAT I HAVE DONE IS TO GO OVER THE WHOLE THREAD AND RE EDIT ALL OF MY POSTS ,
I CERTAINLY HOPE NOW THAT THE MODORATOR WHO REQUESTED THIS ACTION IS HAPPY WITH THE POSTINGS NOW,
AND MAYBE NOW THIS THREAD CAN GET BACK ONTO THE SUBJECT I INTENDED IT TO BE ON,
THE DOUBLE STANDARD ISSUE WITH THE SEMC AND BLACKPOOL MAGICIANS CONVENTION

[miles more magic]

and No its not just some of the mods and members at MB that I feel are in some ones pocket,

How many times does he have to make accusations about people he can't back up?

[naquada]

CARL first public warning... continued bad language (even if retyped to get round the consor words), accusations of people being in peoples pockets without FIRM proof... WILL result in your being removed from these boards..

I am happy to let you discuss things, but in your posts you are AGAIN knocking other boards, accusing people of being controlled and in other peoples 'pockets' without any proof what so ever..

Please edit your post to remove the language, before I do..

if you continue this behavior we WILL lock the thread or remove it.

[danatasmagic]

Things certainly do not seem at all fair for most of the magic dealers,
Those dealers who took a stand against being told what to do by other convention organizers on where they could, or could not sell there goods at, I am refering to the Magic dealers that did have a dealers booth at the SEMC in Surrey,
Because of the tremendous support and loyalty they gave to the SEMC a few weeks ago.
This ended up as you all will know, with them being banned for life from attending or having a dealers booth at the Blackpool Magic Convention, for 2009 and also in the future.

Paul Gordon was a main Lecturer at the SEMC, and also had a dealers stand, Graham lee had his Balloon stall, Davenports were there under the assumed banner of Select Magic I think it was?, Axtell’s puppets was represented at the SEMC as the first UK showing of the new line in animated puppets, And Tommy Coopers Magic was selling goods on behalf of Illusioncraft Blackpool.

So how come all of the above mentioned with the exception of Alan from Tommy Cooper are all having stands at the Blackpool Convention, Also as far as I know Graham lee Balloons is even now scheduled to do his lecture at the Blackpool Convention,
Could it be one rule for some dealers and another rule for all the others,
Maybe even some favoritism is involved here. Depending on whom you are, and how well you're respected by others in this magic fraternity we are all involved with.

Then you get all the dealers that really did pull out of the SEMC, Because of a now famous letter they got from the BMC Organizer ( woops I nearly mentioned his name then )
What the letter more or less said was, If you pull out of the SEMC, I will make sure you do get a stand at the Blackpool Magic Convention, plus if you have paid any none refundable deposit to the SEMC, Blackpool will even knock off this advance payment you made to the SEMC from you're Blackpool stand price. But if you do not pull out of the SEMC, you will not be able to attend the BMC

Is this new practice fair to all those dealers that gave in to the pressure put on them by the BMC,
When other dealers that did not give in to the pressure are now welcomed to attend both conventions, These dealers that did pull out of the SEMC, have been forced to loose money by turning down one convention in favoritism of a bigger one with uncalled for pressure from the organizer,
Really they could have been at both conventions and hopefully made a good money and a good healthy living from both these events,

I also have it on good authority that <<<Naquada - Removed at the request of the person you mentioned here, he said his dealing with both conventions are private and no authorisation was given to talk about it >>>
If I am wrong with this fact? And my source is totally wrong
please do put me right, and I will be more than happy to amend it and apologies where it is needed.

Ok lads and lasses lets see what feed back comes from this thread,
But please keep it to this forums pages, or other forums that let you reply to accusations made,
Please do not take this over to the MB, as there on that site I am not allowed to respond to anything, as it is quite apparent they do not believe in the right to reply and defend yourself.

Oh yes and as an after thought, I have heard again also on very good authority that there has been a film made to be called the making of a magic convention at the SEMC,
right now this is in its post production process and will be ready for general release shortly,
with No holds bared and the crew has had access to all areas from the start to finish,
This is due to be released onto the magic market at a minimal cost thru all good magic dealers and by post.
If I hear any more on this I will keep you posted….have a magical week

Cheers DEROME

I've pasted above much of Carl's original post because I feel it has LOTS of valid points, which unfortunately have been overlooked by subsequent posts.

Would all people (Moderators included!) PLEASE respond to the valid points, & not just the "Not so valid" points? Carl, if you could TRY & calm down just a tad, there will will ALWAYS be double standards in ALL WALKS of life INCLUDING the Magic World!!!

I fully understand Carl your PASSION behind everything you say, you just need to be careful how you say it!!!

I'm glad that The Magic Woods Forum is still a place where you can voice an opinion, WITHOUT being banned, although I am confused why the SAME moderators seem to have "Hijacked" most forums, & yes Carl a couple of the forums DO look EXACTLY the same!!!

I don't understand at all, why "A Moderator" would "Lock The Thread" WHY? is it to shut EVERYONE up ? (not just Carl!!!)

I do however thank Edd Withers, for at least (presumably) having the "Final say" as to what does go on to HIS forum.

Carl it was a pleasure to meet you at the SEMC & your charming wife, it was also nice to meet Edd Withers as well. Bruce (a moderator from Magic Bunny) also introduced himself to me. Shame that some of the others decided NOT to, & therefore remained "Invisible", for whatever reason.....................

Carl, I have HUGE respect for you, your not afraid to say what you think (why should you be?) it's just that sometimes I don't always agree with the way that you say it!!

I did say to Collin Richardson (main convention organiser) that if it was me, I'd say "Stuff the lot of you & forget about any future conventions" but that's not his nature...............

I'm sure that there will be many more conventions, simply because the "South" needs it's very own, Good Value Friendly convention.

Here's to the next one!!!

Best Wishes

Mike Danata

[DE ROME]

Really sorry lads for this post, as I was actually just trying to edit a previous post to keep the Mods happy
and seemed to press the quote button accidently.
so ive removed the post as its way up above already and altered....DEROME

[naquada]

firstly to your point about moderators hijacking forums... and them all looking the same...

although I am confused why the SAME moderators seem to have "Hijacked" most forums, & yes Carl a couple of the forums DO look EXACTLY the same!!!

many of the forums run on the same software, that comes with the same template..

if you look.. magicbunny, and talk magic look very similar in the colouring and style, because they use the same base template in their design.

if we set the template of this forum, to the same base template, you'd find it was also blue and white... hardly a conspiracy...

take a little time to look at the mods on each board and you;ll find they are different.. the reason DeRome or Carl or which ever username he uses on each forum has been banned, is because of his behavior, accusing people with no grounds or proof or actions, bad language, disregards of warnings, and the continued same posts. ALL the moderators from ALL boards do talk to each other, we have to to protect users from spam, 'trolls' and other issues regarding forums. But each board takes its own view on by whom, what, and how they can be used..

I don't understand at all, why "A Moderator" would "Lock The Thread" WHY? is it to shut EVERYONE up ? (not just Carl!!!)

basically, no... a thread is locked for a number of reasons.. when we receive reports (and we have got more than two on this thread from users) complaining about the post we may lock it until we decide what to do with it, we may also remove it into our hidden area, before deciding if we should delete it or re-instate it.
We lock threads why they have run their course, and also when they are outside our rules. in the case where someone is accusing 'people' and from this and other posts we feel that Carl is accusing us, as well as other boards of actions unproven, we will also consider locking, removing and after warnings if a users behavior doesn't improve, banning

I do however thank Edd Withers, for at least (presumably) having the "Final say" as to what does go on to HIS forum.

The forum is run by a team, there are a number of staff members, who have the 'final say' as you say, however, the entire moderator group and users, do have a say, and we go with what we feel is in the best interests of the majority.

I didn't attend the convention as I was elsewhere, otherwise I would definitely have talked to you.


some users on this forum are offended and fed up with DeRome's posts, and the staff are currently discussing his future here..

as senior moderator, admin and staff member here, I have the ability and right to remove DeRome, but I have not, maybe that says something to you mike about 'fairness', once the staff have agreed we will take the decided action.

The woods is NOT a battle ground, it is NOT a place to hurl abuse and accusations at other boards and members, and it will NOT be tolerated.

The SEMC convention is now gone, and if you decide to run one next year, good luck to you, but I do not see the point in the constant dragging up of accusations that are unfounded and unproven.

now to DeRome's coments:

His comments about who was at SEMC and who may be at Blackpool, are valid, he's within his rights to talk about that, however I dont feel he's ok to talk about which dealers where involved. if there is a dispute between a dealer and a convention, unless you are representing SEMC or the dealer, or another convention, I dont feel its right to talk about their names directly.

Do you have permission from those quoted to discuss letters sent and received ?? - Edit it appears not as we've been asked to remove your comment -

As to accusations of 'in pockets' and so on, I think we've dealt with that above.

thank you for the information about the film..

it woudl be nice to actually talk about magic on here.. and not how people are being hard done by and havign to listen to accusations about what they havent done...

now if you dont all behave.. you're ALL staying in after class, and I dont care who did it...

[danatasmagic]

Apart from my response, no one really (publicly at least!) cares about this thread!!

If you scroll down ALL the posts, the only people responding are the MODERATORS!! Carl having a go at them, them having a go at Carl..............

In fact Carl was "Wound Up" initially by a comment made by Miles More Magic. (even though it was a bit funny, it was uncalled for, Carl would have been jumped upon for the same comment, about someone else.)

Carl was on his very best behavior on the day of the SEMC, no sign of him being gagged & bound (like a failed Houdini!) in the boot of anyone's car! Yes, I have said that in Jest, & WILL get away with it as far as Carl is concerned) because he genuinely knows that I am NOT having a dig at him, I do respect SOME of what he says, & his right to say it.

Anyway I have a suggestion to make:

The thread will "lock itself" if NO ONE has anything to say, that is one thing I have learned regarding forums!!

So if you all say NOTHING, it will vanish ON IT'S OWN ACCORD...............

Just like MAGIC!!

All the best

Mike

[DE ROME]

Quote
His comments about who was at SEMC and who may be at Blackpool, are valid, he's within his rights to talk about that, HOWEVER I DONT FEEL HE IS OK TO TALK ABOUT WHICH DEALERS WHERE INVOLVED.
if there is a dispute between a dealer and a convention, unless you are representing SEMC or the dealer, or another convention, I dont feel its right to talk about their names directly.

<< naquada - individuals name removed by request>>

REPLY
I do not agree at all with your comment I have put in bold above ,
If certain dealers are given special treatment preferential or otherwise, and others dealers are not ,
Then Why should people not be intitled to know just who these dealers are,?
are the facts to be kept under wraps to everyone?
Is this because it has to do with Blackpool ?
or would you feel the same way if it was any other convention ?

I totally disagree with your comment on this subject, maybe im wrong again?, like everything else i do here.
But it would be more Interesting to hear the views. of what some of the other lay people on this forum thinks about the comment you have made about not naming them,
and not just the view of a moderator who has all the power do do what HE thinks is best.

Also you edited from my original letter <<naquada - individuals name removed by request>> name, as the person dealing and lecturing at both conventions, and then edited out again the same paragraph about <<naquada - individuals name removed by request>> from Mike Danatas re posting of the letter,
Only for your self to RE PRINT his name in Red on your reply,

Now come of it people are not that dumb, and can work out who the person is that you take away.
especially when you re print the name your self,
DE ROME

[Paul Gordon]

I've only joined this board to make one comment. Here it is (to whom it may concern): Please stop misquoting me and making false and incorrect statements about me and my business. My business and dealings with the organisers of SEMC and Blackpool Convention are private. Comments made here have have been/are false. Leave me out of your private squabbles. Andrew Webb, at my request, deleted some lines and I'm grateful that he did.

Without prejudice.

Paul Gordon

[naquada]

If you scroll down ALL the posts, the only people responding are the MODERATORS!! Carl having a go at them, them having a go at Carl..............

because we've have reports about the posts... miles isn't a mod (as far as I know)!!

we are not having a go.. we're pointing out facts...

[EddWithers]

I've only joined this board to make one comment.

That's a shame! Stay and enjoy some of our more light-hearted topics! If you enjoy your stay here as much as I enjoyed your card work the other weekend, you'll love it!

I'm locking this, and the other SEMC/BMC threads, due to legal and other issues. If you wish to PM me, email me (edd@themagicwoods.co.uk) Call me - 07760236762, or even arrange to meet me, to discuss this matter, please feel free.

However, the main reason, is that when I recieve the number of complaints and headaches from one post topic, I HAVE to act. I have a life and a job outside of TMW, and I just don't have the time to also be dealing with this sort of issue. Add to that the potential for legal issues to arise from topics like this... I would be negligent not to act, if only to save myself.


I wish to repeat, I am closing this, and other threads where legal (and plain annoying) issues are created, now and in future threads. If posts are made in the future, they will be individually evaluated.

TMW has a policy of free speech, and I can assure you that this will never be undermined.

Thanks for your understanding.

Edd